Presenters Bio
Debra Betts
Forum Replies Created
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Hi – just to add into this the use of CV 4 – towards CV 2 – subcut – so more threading …as part of their labour preparation. Asa well as the massage of SP 6 and up to massage out those Liver Gummies as above as homework …I only have feedback from midwives that they are surprised in the positive changes in cervix’s they were concerned about. So this is posterior cervix’s etc as well as previous scarring – will try and track women with previous cryotherapy – Its a good reminder of a question I could be specifically asking in the intake… as I agree its not good to have this a problem at the last minute in labour ! Any other thoughts or specific experiences?
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Hi Brodie
Oh I did not appear to have received notification of this earlier post – as far as I am aware placenta abruption is just one of those adverse events that is still not fully understood in western medicine – and for me in TCM as well – don’t personally see it as the result of something like liver qi stagnation or spleen qi depletion but rather as a trauma within the uterus that just occurs . As for postnatal treatment – just need to support what ever is happening with her. Although its terribly sad I have found women appreciate someone that they can talk to that is not family and friends as they work their way through the grief . And we give them support and treatment and self help with moxa, post natal recovery etc they find useful. I have seen all sorts of reactions but usually at some time there is real anger….we do many things but I have found creating a safe space for women to vent this had been appreciated . But really its just about treating what you see and what is the most important for her at the time. Hope that’s helpful …
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Unfortunately I do not appear to be able to share spread sheets so am attaching as a list
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Hi Anita
I was just wondering about your use of stick on Moxa – do you ask then to keep using the mini moxa’s for a set time – or set number of moxa’s ?
I have been reluctant to use these due to some previous patients giving themselves a small burn as it got how so quickly …and people have not always been able to remove them quickly …..was not on BL 67 though …and maybe I was not giving them the right kind of stick on mini moxa’s …. your thoughts ?
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Hi Jennifer – just to reinforce that if her medical caregivers are planning an ECV, should be no issues with using Moxa prior to the ECV – you can find the ECV guidelines from Royal College of Obstetricians & Gynaecologists in the written resources classroom that states
“Women may wish to consider the use of moxibustion for breech presentation at 33–35 weeks of gestation, under the guidance of a trained practitioner.”
And the earlier she can start the better 😊
I also like to try and release the back using cupping ( the uterine ligaments attach to the back and its just the idea that you want the any possible tension released to enable the uterus to be allowing optimal space) .
I also use GB 41 to release the Dai Mai for similar rational
And then emotional considerations or TCM constitutional factors – good news that their is plenty of amniotic fluid – as this is also another factor to consider when planning a treatment.
Compliance can be an issue – so suggest also making moxa holder with the smokeless sticks – out of a small play dough container or potato- will attach as a picture
Let us know how it all goes
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Hi Brodie – thanks for positing – just wondering what the positive asis reflex is? Afraid I’m clueless !
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Hi Melissa -Thanks that’s actually interesting that you found it useful for Menstrual cramps – not sure I have ever used for this. SP 8 was always my first go to point but as both are Xi Cleft points maybe just as useful ? Be interesting if others also use this?
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Thank you so much for sharing Tansy – I am in the fortunate position at the moment of not having exposed patients seeking assistance, but the more we can share about our experiences the more prepared we will all be!
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Hi Emile
Oh I could not open the attached ? Which topic was it on ?
Just need to make sure people can add PDF’s !
🙂
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Hi Tansy – thanks for your thoughts and good to hear you find it useful in early pregnancy as well. 🙂 My apologies if I was not clear in the post above, but just want to clarify -I am not actually recommending KID 9 as a preventive treatment at 3 and 6 months …. more that I have found KID 9 to be useful for calming the uterus
Although the term ‘beautiful baby point’ has been passed down by teachers and can be found in the older texts – It does seem to me, and would love to hear others thoughts on this -but from what I found in the French text the 3 and 6 month treatment was a misunderstanding relating to something that was happening at the time with Syphilis ( which would not have been effective, at three months the infection would not have crossed the placenta and you could not always observe if the baby had indeed been infected at birth).
The rationale of why KID 9 would have this effect just seems more mythical or wishful thinking than something useful to promote – I certainly am not going to give women a money back guarantee if there babies were born with allergies! And know many acupuncturists who used this on themselves and had children with allergies /that did not sleep well etc !
Would rather practitioners talked about a well pregnancy check at 3 and 6 months to address wellness and preventive care for the common problems of pregnancy many women just accept ( back pain, heart burn, insomnia etc ). Maybe indeed KID 9 is used but it would be part of a package of care ( also has emotional aspects etc )
Would love to hear others comments on this as part of the idea of these forums is to create discussion and share viewpoints 🙂
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Yes, many thanks Alexandra for starting this thread and Anita for joining in with more useful resources. We have been having some issues with the discussion forums – hence the double replies from Claudia and Stephanie but hopefully all fixed now and we can move forward to easily interact in these forums 🙂
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Oh and just to add to the discussion on using KID 1 – I have this video of using it in labour with needles. Poor quality I’m afraid (around 15 years old!) but if you can, turn up the sound and listen you can hear the birthing sounds change as KID 1 is needled ( She had a previous delivery that did not go well- as a nurse she had ended up in the resuscitation of her own baby several minutes after delivery as here were not nursing staff around). Baby was eventually OK but ended up emergency transfer to another hospital for intensive care. This labour was originally slow – when I arrived the baby was posterior ( you can also see needles in SP 6 and BL 60 ) Labour quickly changed and then suddenly she started saying she could not go through giving birth again – was panicking …so I used needles on KID 1 and her partner started filming on his phone. She had also just qualified as an acupuncturist so you can hear her asking if its in yet (when I was manipulating the point with a 1.5 inch needle to depth – also her saying I can’t feel it yet and then me telling her it was in to depth) You can also hear her saying how nice the point felt.
She became very calm – so calm in fact the midwife thought she had gone out of labour but on examination she was 8 cm and labour progressed nicely.
I was surprised KID 1 felt so good to her to have needled and she went on to attend birth for others and often used KID 1 when women were kneeling with needles…
Anyway just wanted to share what useful point it can be with needles during labour and hope you can access this old video clip
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An interesting point Amy about our need for awareness on referral – I saw a woman postnatally (who also had twins) who was still in hospital when she collapsed – she had pre eclampsia and ended up in Intensive care with renal failure – although she was in hospital no one was taking her blood pressure and she said she hadn’t told anyone how bad she was feeling – just thought she would feel absolutely awful and unwell because she had just delivered twins via a C section!
We have had a woman die postnatally here in New Zealand post birth with eclampsia – she was phoning her care giver (day three at home) complaining of bad headaches and it was not seen as urgent. She collapsed at home the next day.
So always important to be aware that pre eclampsia (and HELLP syndrome) can occur in the postnatal period… may be especially relevant with Covid and certainly Zena is reporting they are seeing more women present with Pre eclampsia postpartum. We can start another thread in the Covid classroom …
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Hi Kari
Great post to start with – we only had a short full on lock down here but I did run some acupressure sessions – there were one on one and I found it really interesting – it was different being in the couples home and the partners seemed more relaxed, cracking jokes, asking more questions etc. It was extra work though – I was using Jane as a tele heath program. So they made an appointment and I sent them through a questionnaire and the acupressure sheets from my website asking them to practice so we could trouble shoot on the video session – Then when we meet. I was able to split the screen so I could bring up the worksheets in one screen and then watch them find the points. Then I would send them a follow up e mail with a summary of any special points to focus on and pictures of any other points they could also use – lots of stress points ! Then the follow up! I only did 6 sessions (once we came out of strict lockdown and people could visit practitioners they were no longer interested) but did come away from each sessions with a feeling of more connection than I was expecting – Kate mentions in her lecture some research about oxytocin via telehealth!