Maria Hunter
Forum Replies Created
-
Hi there,
I’m just wanting to clarify – are we losing access to the materials we currently have access to in the Library? Or is this in reference to future library additions?
Thank you,
Maria
-
Hi Sarah,
Thanks so much for this response. As someone who has not attended a birth or had any doula or midwifery training, I was not sure if I was missing something here. My assumption for this question was to get ready for birth and make sure to have towels and blankets on hand to keep everyone warm and cleaned up afterward. However, thinking about being a home delivery without someone trained to deliver a baby was a difficult thing for me to wrap my head around. Thank you for confirming and also for emphasizing the training for newborns.
-
Hi Haley,
It sounds like the acupuncture is helping a lot already! I would probably defer to the midwife on the tinctures but if what you are doing is working well she might not need to take the tincture much longer anyway?
Here is a great piece by Aviva Romm on miscarriage https://avivaromm.com/miscarriage/. I don’t know if you patient is looking for another tincture to try? She recommends the following tincture blend :
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Mix the following amounts of tinctures in a 2 oz. amber glass bottle with a dropper top.
- Blue cohosh (Caulophyllum thalictroides) 20 ml
- Black cohosh (Actaea racemoa) 15 ml
- Motherwort (Leonorus cardiaca) 10 ml
- Cramp bark (Viburnum opulus) 5 ml
- Total 50 ml
Instructions: Beginning in the morning take 3 mL (about ½ tsp.) of the above tincture combination every 4 hours to stimulate uterine contractions. If no contractions ensue, repeat the next day. Contractions usually begin after the first 24 hours, but it may take as long as 48 hours. The process can be repeated for a third day; if I ever have to do this, I usually allow a one-day break between the second and third days of using the protocol. Wait for the miscarriage symptoms to begin. If they do not, you can move onto the medication option.
——————————————————————————————————————————————
I have not used this clinically, I do not have loads of experience with western herbs in my practice and this is not an area where I really want to experiment. However, Aviva Romm is a great herbalist midwife. The use of these herbs seems to be to start contractions of the uterus in order the expel the fetus. Angelica is a blood mover as well as blood tonic, maybe her midwife is using it to try to stimulate contractions as well while supporting the blood? Cottonwood is traditionally used to manage pain. Other western herbalists in this group will give you a better answer about the current tincture she is on I’m sure. 😬
Personally, I defer to Chinese herbs to help miscarriages along. Before a miscarriage begins, Gou Qi Yin is my go to with modifications depending on the pattern. It can take a little longer, doesn’t necessarily cause cramping like cohosh does. The day after the miscarriage has started, Sheng hua tang is the formula of choice to help all of the pregnancy products leave the body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JrNCjwDxDs
Gou qi yin is a modified Tao Hong Si Wu Tang with the addition of small amounts of other herbs.
Gou Qi Yin: Dang Gui, Bai Shao, Shu Di, Xiang Fu, Chuan Xiong, Huang Hua, Tao Ren, E Zhu, Mu Tong Zhi Gan Cao, Rou Gui
It sounds like you patient is experiencing a lot of deficiency. I would consider giving her Ba Zhen Tang or Gui Pi Tang in the weeks after the pregnancy has passed to help build her blood back up if she is wanting to TTC again.
I’m so sorry to hear you patient is experiencing another miscarriage. She’s in good hands with you looking out for her and and addressing the past pregnancy loss traumas!
-
Hi Heidi,
I am so sorry to hear this has happened to your neighbor. It certainly is a lot of information to wrap anyone’s head around. This sounds a lot like a case I had earlier in the year, my patient ended up having PPROM. Her waters broke at 18 weeks and she was eventually admitted to the hospital at 22 weeks and had a classical cesarian just after 24 weeks. She had very little amniotic fluid after 18 weeks, just enough that the babies face was covered and so she was being closely monitored before eventually needing to give birth.
Not sure if that is what happened with your neighbor or if it was something like an incompetent cervix? I know that if it were an issue with the cervix being somewhat dilated and it is caught in time that often a cerclage is employed. However if it were PPROM this would be an inappropriate solution. A lot of times, PPROM is caused by an infection. The risk becomes infection to the fetus and so allowing the labor to progress can prevent some damage to babies organs and possibly avoid neonatal death. There are babies that have survived this early of a delivery – they require lots of care in the hospital to help the baby develop and help the organs get up to speed.
I did not get to see my patient during the period of time from when the waters broke to her birth. I actually haven’t seen her yet since this all happened – that is a different, tragic story. While this was all going on, I was asking around for much of the same information as you. Mostly what I found from other providers was advice to support the emotions as well as to support any physical symptoms that are coming along with post-partum. To say this is a roller coaster is an understatement. This is likely long road for baby and parents to get baby healthy enough to go home. I think if she is open to acupuncture and / or herbs these would both be very helpful tools. Anything else you would do for a post-partum neighbor/friend or patient would likely be appropriate here depending on your relationship (delivering food, helping run an errand, chores, etc). It sounds like you have already been really helpful watching her kids and being available as well as looking into ways to support her! She’s really fortunate to have you looking out for her.
Was she able to have a vaginal birth or did she have another cesarian? How is she feeling? Is she still in the hospital or is she going back and forth at this point?
Sending lots of love to you and your neighbor and their family
-
Hi Sarah,
Thanks so much for these suggestions. I am excited to discuss the padsicles with her tomorrow!
Your peri-healing tea sounds lovely. Would you be willing to share amounts of each herb that you use? Equal parts?
Thank you again!
-
Hi Susan,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and all that you have learned from it. I am so relieved to hear you are healing up well and that you had what sounds like really great care for this! And congratulations on your little one!
I had no idea how uncommon these were. I will make sure she is set up with a specialist as well as get her on the wait list for the pelvic floor PT in town.
I will be doing a home visit this week and will talk with her about doing weekly or bi-weekly treatments for the first couple months of recovery to try to help with the pain as well as the emotional side of things. She does tend towards constipation but she has been taking a laxative for most of her life and it manages the constipation really well. I will certainly keep an eye on this.
For pain management, did you use Chinese herbs to help? Or were you able to use acupuncture? And if so, how often did you find to be helpful? I guess I am also wondering if there were other things you found useful for pain management that you would recommend considering?
Warming and cooling (as opposed to hot and ice) packs seems brilliant. It sounds like gently gently is the way here.
Thank you for emphasizing the emotional side of the healing process. Knowing that this seems to be a common response is so helpful to know going into a first visit post-partum.
-
Hi everyone,
I’m Maria and I am living in Bellingham, Washington. My practice is focused on reproductive wellness and fertility which naturally leads right into pregnancy and post partum care. I love working with pregnant people and supporting new parents. I have had a number of very complicated pregnancy cases in the past year and had a really difficult time finding any resources to educate myself with. I am so excited to have this resource now and am looking forward to becoming a better resourced and more knowledgeable practitioner for my pregnant and post partum patients. Looking forward to virtually meeting everyone!
-
I am also having the same issue.
-
Hi Sarah! Thank you SO much for all of this information. I am not a western herbalist so this is new information for me. I’ll be mixing up these this evening for my patient. thank you!
-
Hi Cally!
Thanks for sharing this and for the reminder! The cases she presents are pretty remarkable!
Hoping I will be able to offer this patient herbs tomorrow!
Warmly,
Maria
-
Hi Cally,
Thanks for saying so 💜 and thank you for all of your support!
-
Apologies for my late response – Just seeing this!
Yes, I would be so interested in hearing if anyone else has come across a similar situation in their practice
Sublingual veins two weeks ago when I looked were not distended and just a bit of pale purple color on the left side. The left side is however where the pain begins.
Small update: I have not seen this patient since last week for treatment however I just ran into them on a walk – we’re also neighbors- and they had another episode of severe back spasms on Friday. They are extremely overwhelmed and sleep deprived and fearful of the next episode of spasm as they are pretty unpredictable. They continue to have smaller spasm episodes that last about 30 minutes, one on Saturday and one on Sunday. Their doctor is now wondering if this may be gallbladder related though nothing has shown up on imaging. Their doctor will be running some labs to rule this out. From week 27 to about week 34 of pregnancy they did have elevated acid bile levels and some pretty severe itching. Levels were highest between week 32 and 33 and then rapidly went back down and their doctors stopped running labs, were no longer concerned about cholestasis.
I talked with them about doing some more moxa and they are working with a cranio-sacral therapist. Waiting on results from their doctor regarding lab results. They are skeptical that it would be gallbladder since the referred pain pattern does not match a gallbladder pain pattern and because the pain begins at the site of the epidural.
-
Hi Sarah,
Thank you so much for all of this. That is very interesting that the cases are so similar. Seems like blood deficiency in combination with trauma triggers could be significant here. I can certainly see how blood deficiency could increase spasms and pain as well as a trauma response. I’m glad to hear your patient was able to recover on their own within a couple of weeks. This is what I am hoping for my patient as well.
Thanks for saying something about those pulses. I was suspicious when I felt them too though I wasn’t sure I had much reason to be at the time. Checking for signs of blood stasis seemed appropriate but I was not finding them in a typical way (tongue, pulse). Do you think that the presence of strong, “healthy” seeming pulses postpartum in someone who is typically blood deficient can indicate stasis? It certainly doesn’t make sense that all of a sudden postpartum after not sleeping for a week and laboring for a day and a half that their pulses would be better than prior to birth.
I did not do a root tx the first I saw them. I had just watched a cesarian recovery lecture from Claudia Citkovitz and went for the gentle, extra vessel treatment she suggests. This is good to know for future, thank you.
Ok, we will likely do more moxa then. Thank you for talking me through that.
Yes to HTJJ! I also did this and it was really relaxing for them. LOTS of tension in their mid back, around BL 17 and 18 and HTJJ points there. I guess that could be an additional indicator of stasis?
Thank you for taking the time to help me with this case. I really appreciate your guidance and support.
-
Hi Debra,
Thank you for your response!
I’m glad to see these suggestions. I ended up palpating and going for GB points and supporting shen and digestion as I found out there is some mild constipation going on as well. Also held KD 1 for sometime which seemed to help and able to give some gentle shiatsu along the BL and KD lines on the back while they were resting.
They also work with a community acupuncture clinic in town and had some ear seeds from the NADA protocol in so I was really happy to see that!
I recently learned that moxa can stimulate contractions so I was hesitant to use moxa today. They are having uterine spasms still which scares them a bit as it they are worried it will turn into more pain (it hasnt) . I did give them moxa over their scar last week though and they LOVED it.
I also learned today that chest feeding had been causing their back to spasm and to have uterine spasms as well. They switched positions and are feeding while lying down now and that seems to settle the pain. They have also started taking acetaminophen again – had started weaning off before the extreme pain began and are now taking it every 6 hours again.
Thank you again so much for your input.
-
Hi Sarah,
Thanks so much for your response!
2 pregnancies, 1 birth. First pregnancy miscarried at 8 weeks.
They went into labor on their own after a membrane sweep earlier in the week. They were not induced although their birth team did want to induce them due to their age and diabetes.
As for position, I believe they were able to move around though I did not explicitly ask. This was important to them when deciding where to give birth.
According to this patient, they decided to go with a cesarian because by the time it was suggested, they had been in labor for a day and a half and were so exhausted, did not have anything left and it appeared they had a long ways to go. My guess is that they were not in second stage of labor.
Thank you for these clarifying questions. I’ll know better what to ask in the future now!
Best,
Maria